corner weights for dirt oval racing

To do this you need to enter a corner at the car's limit of adhesion and then peel off the throttle aggressively. Make small changes at the track, and make only one change at a time. In order to perform the set up routine the car needs to be completely ready to race. box in the "Ride Height" section of each spreadsheet. Race Classes Whats Available and Acquiring a Racecar, Suspension, Glass Sunroof Replacement and Racing Seat and Harnesses, Fire System, Transponder, Rear View Mirror. It was a good car. However, for dirt oval RC cars, foam tires are the norm. the scales. They are not too suitable for racing and oval dirt cars. Step 1 - Determine Sprung Weight. much Wedge Delta and make the handling worse. LR = left rear. This spreadsheet will also give you an estimated center of gravity height if your scales. It's The first spreadsheet below is what I started with. You can estimate your car's center of gravity Funny. The more rear weight bias, the tighter the chassis will be coming out of a turn. then set corner weights and cross weight. - can make your car dive like a dump truck or a block of wood on ice. When a NASCAR crewchief says he's "adding wedge", Other than that you need to watch the suspensions. Corner weighting is huge. retract the right rear tire which puts more weight on the Left Rear and I borrowed some scales to weigh my Terceltomorrow. When I drive down a strait road the I can clearly feel that the drivers side is heavier over bumps expansion joints and dips and the like. . However, if you have to apply opposite lock steering (turning the steering wheel to the right) and you drive the car throughout the corner balancing it with the throttle . so the suspension can settle and unbind. I sometimes watch in frustration as teams struggle to set the corner weights and ride heights on their cars. It varies with weight removal, added. The typical goal in corner weighting cars is to make the cross weights equal. I made a 4-scale system for my off-road cars. it would help the car turn left and accelerate better. You can Corner balancing, sometimes referred to as "corner weighting," This is but one method and I encourage everyone to ask around and find a method that works for your type of car, this one may not be the most efficient. how and why to corner balance a car. I added the On a road course, the variety of corners require a wider range of performance; the setup needs to yield good speed through a fast kink and a slow hairpin. The first is to use traditional lift-off oversteer. decided to try 5 turns total of spring perch movement to balance the car. Oval Track. On an average dirt track you will need to change tread and stagger at least once a night, due to changing conditions. One of the problems with cross-weight is that it will change the handling balance from a left to a right turn. The driver is optional based on No. Speaking of springs, it's a good idea How would you makesomething like that? line above the scales and then stood on each scale and placed a ruler on the top Hot Rod. 13. Recheck the ride heights and adjust to fine tune, making changes to the front and rear at the same time. Ah, OK, thanks for the clarification. I usually mark an even inch and write that inch number on the tape. Jun 7, 2018 #8 . Proforms are cheap scales. Our current setup is as follows - 270 lbs Car & Driver Cross Weight = 48% Rear Weight = 61% Left Side Weight = 51% LF = 56 lbs RF = 48 lbs LR = 82 lbs RR = 83 lbs Unsure about autox. suspension). Disconnect the sway bar. Choose a level spot in your setup area. A perfectly corner balanced car will handle the same when turning left and right, and will maximize the tire contact area on all four corners. Rear weight percentage for road racing and autocrossing is less definite. This obviously means that decreasing cross weight or left side weight First the tires. Note the "Conditions and Changes Made" Of course you can add too And there is a methodology, or possibly several that will make this routine easier. Useful fabrication tips for just about any project, A crash course in 3D printing | Making Stuff: Part 2, How to make the move to an aftermarket ECU, 10 Must-Have Tools for a Scratch-Built Car, Fitting tires and wheels when an off-the-shelf option isnt listed. 5.00 front 8.00 back aren't too big unless you can get by with smaller and not lose traction. Bite tells us how much we Interested in hearing peoples' opinions and (preferably) experiences. We do this by jacking weight into, or adding preload to, the RF spring and the LR spring. You should also complete this process with approximately the amount of gas with which you will be racing. g) Oval track and road racers use slightly different vocabularies to describe the adjustments made to their cars and the effects these adjustments have on the car's handling. The process is so basic to the setup of the car. Since oval RC Dirt Oval Basic Setup & Tuning Guide (21.5, dirt oval, GFRP, Custom Works, Purpose Built) - YouTube 0:00 / 43:10 Dirt Oval Setup & Tuning Tutorials RC Dirt Oval Basic Setup &. height and corner balance new springs. You've mentioned "dead struts" a couple of times - what do you mean by that? If one leg is longer or shorter than the others, the table will rock and thus be unstable. [Up] [HarnessInstall] [WingInstall] [RemoveA/C] [OilCooler] [FireSuppress] [CutoffSwitch] [RaceExhaust] [Differential] [CornerBalance] [CatchCan] [RollCenters] [FrontBumpSteer] [Alignment] [ShockTuning] [Aerodynamics] [CatRemove]. All 4 scales must be within 1/8 of an inch. after this adjustment we still need to add 39lbs to the Left Front and you weigh and adjust. "There's a lot of freedom when it comes to setups using various styles of springs" in dirt late model racing, said a source. Toe inn a 1/4 inch. May 2017 -Dirt late model pinning RF & heavy axle tube. I used a laser level to project a horizontal Brake pedal is soft, spongy and/or long before the car is run: Air in the system - bleed brakes. 1. Splash = 2-3 gallons, 1/2 can = 5-6 gallons, 1 can = 11-12 gallons, 1 1/2 cans = 17-18 gallons, 2 cans = full tank. This is the arm length divided by the distance from the shock mount to the inner pivot line, squared. I use 2x6 wood planks as ramps to drive the car onto on my garage floor for future reference. Bite should be positive for oval racing, Wedge = 4m.net - The Most Opinionated Racing Message Board In The Universe. Less fuel equals faster speeds. To keep it clear in my head, I think of the car as a four-legged table sitting on a mattress. We run a fixed chassis meaning no suspension and the Briggs lo206 so we aren't sliding it around the corner but tracking almost like an asphalt Kart. that as a result the coil springs must bequite beefy and stout, 600 lb/in or more. Now that's pretty cool! They kept saying that it would go anywhere on the track and anywhere they pointed it. If you don't want to change your ride height then a more balanced approach would "Springs and chassis components can be adjusted to push down on one rear wheel," Bickel said. Bottom line, you can strive for perfection, but ultimately youll just make yourself crazy. Are they adjustable? So, ride heights in the front are more critical for maintaining camber angles. That's all total speculation though. Doing the multiplication to square that number, we get 1.1056. In our example, move the LR and RR corners down by 0.4375-inch. The car is built on a jig for a particular ride height layout. So, we are not reinventing the wheel here, just refining the process. Cross-weight percentage compares the diagonal weight totals to the car's total weight. Once you have installed your coil-over suspension, mount the rims with the tires you will be racing with, and complete all other items that could impact the vehicles weight and placement of that weight. Do this at every wheel. , Left Rear = Because it's targeting LF/LR = RF/RR to equalize the left vs right handling characteristics. But this is almost never the case. For street cars it certainly can be. more traction or bite in left turns. These are your current calculated weights: Left Weight = Raising the rear end will also provide a little more on-power grip by keeping more weight directly above the rear tires during acceleration. used cheap linoleum tiles (49 cents each at Home Depot) to shim two of my scales The situation isfrustrating. I looked back and I don't think I've ever done an article on this subject and I can't understand why. Ok sounds good. On an average workbench/table that's close to level, it's probably < 3g difference per corner, which is within the tolerance of stiction / binding in a touring car. Weight can be moved around at the track to fine tune the handling characteristics of the chassis. important for oval racers, especially on dirt ovals. "This is called chassis pre-load. Don't just blindly cross weight it thinking it's the "right" way. Minimizing the hysteresis is good, but it also minimizes the shock/spring contribution to effective 'at the wheel' unprung weight (mass). Corner-Weight Distribution Bickel points out that corner-weight distribution refers to the amount of weight carried by diagonally opposed pairs of wheels. Basically, I don't see much of a relationship between 'static' corner weighing via adjusting spring length and the addressing of fundamental L/R weight imbalance as those difference are what drive suspension and mass motions when moving. the front ramps then jack up the rear and lower it onto the rear scales. as Left Rear Bite + Right Front Bite. The third, and probably the best, option seems to be to invest in a set of hub stands, as this not only takes care of the bind issues via their built-in rollers, but it just makes the task of doing the alignment a lot simpler as well. on the right front and left rear tires. 6. The proper progression for these two parameters is to establish ride height first and then set the corner weights, which comes down to setting the crossweight. the driver seat and reconnect them so there's no preload on them. 3. need to roll the car back and forth a few inches several times, being careful Bounce the car at each corner to free the suspension from any bind, then roll the car onto the scales. No, not as in the law, but in being legal in tech. Still, it is a worthwhile goal to strive for 50 percent left-side weight. can help us get our setup right with less testing. lowered onto the scales the tires will need to spread out to unbind the weights and percentages and generates target wheel weights to achieve a 50% Take the total weight of the car in the configuration you decide on, with driver or without, and to find the corners, do the following: TVW = Total Vehicle Weight = 2,800, LSP = left side weight percent = 0.54, FWP = front weight percent = 0.51, CWP = Crossweight percent = 0.52. LR 175, RR 350 - 350 175 = 2.00 multiplier for the rear. and without me in the driver seat and yup, the theory is right--the cross weight I plugged in a bunch of numbers into my calculator and it all checks out. Wedge Delta should be positive for oval racing. Shock Angle-measure the angle of the shock installed and at ride height. I needed 3 linoleum tiles (0.045" thick You will have to repeat this every time you lower the car onto supposed to. Adjust the rear down by using the same method as in No. They're made by Proform, and are quite a bit less expensive than the ones made by Intercomp, but they got good reviews. Your car may be designed to run different ride heights than these. Kart racing chassis are designed in a manner to allow it to turn the only way it can, without having a read differential - with the inside rear tire lifting off the track on corner entry. calipers. It's stuff closer to 60/40 or 40/60 where you need to stray from crossweighting. I To make sure your spring changes don't upset your ride heights or crossweight percent, you need to mark your wheel spacing to the fenders. This article explains everything pretty clearly and I feel like I could tackle the job myself now! You will have to repeat this every time you lower the car onto Reduced stopping power with normal brake pedal: Pad fade - due either to unbedded new pads or to temperature beyond. another. A stiffer spring on one corner equals more weight transfer to that corner. In the example at the beginning of the article, this was the problem: a cross-weight percentage that was less than 50 percent, and probably off by at least two percent. You can also estimate your car's And actually you'rereally not going to changefront/rear weight balance with ride height changes, so itreally only matters that pressures are even side to side. 2. My car is a 1987 Honda CRX, set up according toITC class rules. things being equal). For information on corner weights: Corner Weight Calculator if Since this article still gets a bunch of traffic, just bumping it up. Right Rear weight: < Enter your corner weights in pounds or kilos and click 'Calculate'. To keep things clear I call this added weight Wedge Delta (Right Front + Left Rear) / (Left Front + Right Rear), When balanced the Cross Weight % will = 50%. W. William18 New member. Calculate the spring rate multiples. The problem with this option is simply that hub stands aren't cheap - the lowest priced ones I've found are $849, kind of a lot of money for something most people wouldn'tdo all that often. You can also use this online calculator to compute your corner Changing the amount of weight on each corner will change how the kart handles in a turn. this excellent article: I started out with the KW spring perches set exactly the same So as long as you are draining the fluid from your shocks, also remove or cut away the seals. Tell the shop you will be disconnecting the rear sway bar when obtaining the estimate. The following are screen shots from the That is why a stiffer right rear spring makes the car looser. If you are using scales as a base, level the scales with a long level, a long straight piece of tubing, square or round with a smaller level, or better yet, an instrument level such as a construction level. A lowered rear roll center promotes side bite at the rear which tends to tighten corner handling. Go in hard, let off and let the drag brake pivot the car, and get right back on the throttle. Corner Weight: (1/2 the front or rear weight) Use an accurate racecar scale that will weigh each corner of your car. important for cars with upgraded (stiffer) sway bars because they can exert a are favoring the left rear tire for better acceleration out of left Motors / ESC: Any 1/10th scale motor/esc combo allowed. This approach is commonly used in oval track racing. Today's oval Wedge Ideal weight percentages: Front - 43-45% Left - 53-56% Cross - 52-54% What do these numbers mean? Just to confirm the theory I checked the corner weights with This gets very tedious, given the number of iterations it typically takes to get the corner weights right. If the diff spins at 200rpm and the car is going straight, both wheels spin at 200rpm. RC Oval racing is probably the easiest form of RC racing right, right? rear should be the same. Carry some in your tool kit and buy tarus wheel studs if you want a dirt cheap slightly longer wheel stud to have more safety. Wedge Delta can also be thought of In order for the table to stand steady, all four legs should be of equal length, and as a consequence each will apply equal pressure on the floor. Please post on the appropriate 4m forum. Record each spring rate. two years. The other two corners will gain weight. And don't ever believe the track scales. When Wedge is balanced at Bite and Wedge Delta are I used a laser level to project a horizontal measure (literally). The "Corner Weight" (virtual scales) now determines the ride height and/or corner weigh . In oval racing you always run more weight on the LR. the scales and zero them with no weight on them. upgrading our street stock suspension part 2 the rear end. not to push it off the scales, to unbind the suspension (as the car is You could also raise the left front or right rear ride heights to do the same thing. I use 2x6 wood planks as ramps to drive the car onto This adds pressure to that end of the car just like putting the paper wedge underneath the table leg. Same with go-karts with solid rear axles, they'll lift. Get the rear percentage as close to the manufacturer's specs as possible. Lowering the cross weight does the opposite of raising the cross weight. If you do have adjustable end links then disconnect In this example, we will adjust the crossweight percentage on a sample car with different rate springs. Would be interesting to see how close to ideal I got it though, given how well it handles already. Your car can lose ride height during the race and you need to be at minimum after you leave Victory Lane. 5 diameter stainless ball bearing on top of a 1" shortwell socket on the center of a floor Jack and jack the car up in the center of the rearend housing. Right Front weight: Left Rear weight: Astrut with its innards removed? Of course you can add too These weights are in ready to race form (including driver on board). If you go to a tuning shop that provides this service, estimate that it will cost you $90 $150 to have them corner weight the car for you. I dropped my integra off at edge to have this done today. Using dead strut inserts could be an option for cars with strut suspension. I created a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet do the following Using dead struts and lots of bearings will help. Now that we have the front-to-rear rake set, we adjust the side-to-side rake. More stagger usually loosens the handling in left turns, so more cross-weight is used to tighten it up. "weight jacking," or "scaling," involves adjusting the spring perches of a car To add weight to a given corner, raise the ride height at that corner or lower the ride height at an adjacent corner. The SRM will determine the relative changes to the spring height adjusters for weight changes. Calculate the average existing ride heights front and rear. You can lower the cross weight to help on tacky tracks. Front + Left Rear) - (Left Front + Right Rear) and tells us how much positive Bite and positive Wedge Delta. camber angle of the wheels (-3.5 front, -3 rear). This will pitch the vehicle's. At least for road racing. Record these. Then move components like the battery or fuel cell. On oval track cars, cross-weight is usually used in conjunction with stagger (where the right rear tire is larger in circumference than the left rear tire) to balance handling. 1 of the section on "Adjusting The Corner Weights," and that is 685. The rear is 2.125" wider. For high banked tracks, the front spring rate must be increased and it is often necessary to. For road racing and autocrossing, the ideal left weight percentage is 50 percent. but tend too love the 1/2 miles.I just cant figure out a way too get these. will help with those turns. I was surprised to find, contrary to my experience, that the Vette came is very close to itsexpected weight as soon as it was let down on the scales, without having to take bind out of the suspension. It still pays to be thoughtful about weight placement fore and aft in your car. The distance from the ground to an inner suspension arm pivot point will also accomplish the above goal. of the scale to take a reading. The Circle Track Analyzer is a computer program that simulates most any car you can design, racing on most any size oval track. Get the numbers right and the percentages will follow. Left Front and Right Rear but you'll have to test to find out what works best. I stretched my tires to get the RR right and now I'm . Rebound adjustments will allow you to alter your car to a corner entry condition without affecting corner exit or vice versa. center of gravity (CG) height by using this page: (I suppose cooking oil, motor oil, KY, or Astro-Glide would also work). The effect of shock rod seal frictionat the wheel will be reduced by the crank leverage ratio. Find a fairly level spot and mark on the ground with duct tape or marker where the tires sit on the ground. Even 1/8 inch difference will make a difference, especially if you have I had to do this with my truck. %, Bite = All of these measurements are widened by the Typical racing scales will calculate this for you automatically, but you can rig up something that will work using a single scale and 3 equal sized spacers to get a good estimate. Iretighten them after I've made all my adjustments. important for oval racers, especially on dirt ovals. I guess I should work on losing weight personally (i am 220~). It's This makes the cornering force balanced from left to right and offers the best performance overall. Now that we understand why we need to maintain a set ride height, let's go through an example of how to set ride height. I race in a spec class, so everyone is using the same equipment. turns. Recheck air pressure often to assure ride heights stay consistent. In our example we will be using the same method with corrections for different rate springs. Wheel Offset Changes. And I cannot really move any weight around. That is because all of the points move together. Basically - after you finish the set up routine, the car goes in the hauler. If you lower the ride height at a given corner, that corner will lose weight as will the diagonally opposite corner. So let's study ride heights first. I still rolled the car back and forth a The spreadsheet's second page has a good article that goes into more detail of . want balanced turning in both directions. of its weight on the Left Front and Right Rear tires, and 50% on the Right Front When a NASCAR crewchief says he's "adding wedge", I commented on this to the youtubevideo on TIG welding, where they put their C5 Vette on scales and had a contest to guess the weight correctly, so I apologize for the duplicate posts. 3. tire pressure RF 43 LF 35 RR 40 LR 35 psi. Upgrade fluid and/or cool. 50% then Wedge Delta will be 0. I don't see how this is even possible with a strut type suspension like mine, or with any coilover setup, for that matter, since the weight of the car sits on the collars that go around the shocks/struts. Left front weight + right rear weight = right front weight + left rear weight. When I weigh my cars I try not too overthink all this binding stuff. It is important that you complete the corner weighting process before doing an alignment. In circle track racing, we often, and almost always, have different rate springs on each corner of the car. document your current ride heights and your coil over changes each time If you decide to have a tuning shop complete the corner weighting and assuming you are not driving the car to the shop, disconnect the rear sway bar yourself to save the shop time and you money. Air up the tires as they will roll through tech. CG Height Calculator, Cross Weight % = Here's a box stock 2006 Honda S2000 with 5/8 of a rear. springs to put more weight on the left rear (and right front) tires and Race Tires: Are You Ready to Spend Some Money? Motor: 550 or 540 motors only. car for a week to let the suspension settle: I decided to disconnect the front and rear sway bars to see what should have their spring perches in the same spot and your left rear and right is especially true if you don't have adjustable spring perches. It's critical that you set ride height in the same place each and every time you do it. To do this, we add five rounds of pre-load to the RF. Corner_Balance.zip Excel spreadsheet. Right Front tires. Corner weighing will tell you how much overall mass your car has as well as the mass present at each wheel. Free Download Chapter listings from. When Wedge is balanced at This will not change the left-side or rear weight percentages. Did you mean it was off several hundred pounds per corner? Wedge Delta and what values work best for certain tracks and conditions A jumbo ziploc bag prevents lube from escaping when not in use. As with the table, the corresponding diagonal corner of the vehicle gets more of the car's weight. close to where I wanted it. Since I went to 800 front and 700lb rear springs over the winter I Many electronic scales will perform the calculations for you. Because karts have so much caster having the steering turned even slightly will cause a big change in the corner weights. If you shocks are working normally they are not worth worrying about. The Track (FATT) event and it handled superbly. I can see binding throwing off each corners weight but the sum should be the same. The less fuel in the tank the tighter the chassis will become. if you have any of the scales connected improperly (i.e. . The tiles I % Wedge Delta will be 0 at 50% Wedge. If the person reduces the force with which he's pressing against the ceiling, the weight read by the scales will decrease. If you have uneven mass on your wheels then your tyres will all have different levels of grip which can lead to an unpredictable car on circuit and make it corner faster in one direction than the other. While several different setup parameters could have caused this situation, a likely cause is excessivecross-weight. from +1 overall to -1): I put + 3/4 of a turn back on the Right Front and ended up

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